PSA – warning for fresh users of Lightning Network. Wallets like Breez do not allow you hold Bitcoins. You do not actually “own” the Bitcoins in Breez wallet at any given time. Sources inside.

As a seasoned Lightning Network and Bitcoin expert, I lately got really annoyed by inexperienced people in this sub telling me I don’t know I am talking about when I say that wallets like Breez and Phoenix are either half-custodial or full-custodial solutions, which are banking.

So, I did what I do best as a seasoned technology expert – did my research.

Actually, it was even worse than I imagined.

While Phoenix wallets authors at least have the honesty and integrity to tell that their wallet is custodial on their website, Breez wallet authors don’t do even that.

At no point in time they even tell their users that they are **not actually in full control of their money at any given time**.

– In Breez wallet, you cannot backup private key to your own hands.

– In breez wallet, you cannot backup channel states to your own hands.

– In fact, **in breez wallet, you don’t get to see the private key at all!**


You know – we, actual early Bitcoiners have a saying since very early days (2011) : “**Not your keys, not your coins**”.

The coins in Breez are not your coins. They are IOUs. Fiat money. Banking revisited.



Breez launches public beta of Lightning Network enabled bitcoin wallet


Sources (phoenix wallet):

What do you think?

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  1. Breez wallet literally backs up the channel state to a back up server of your choice. For regular people that’s Google Drive. You can take that file and switch to another non-custodial wallet.

  2. If you wanna win an argument, don’t give your opponent extra ammunition.

    There is so much shit that can be pointed out, that it is totally unnecessary to make a point as shaky as this one.

  3. I’m a big supporter of bitcoin cash and I know that bitcoin cash is better than bitcoin core. I also know that you are misinformed at best. Lightning is shit but we don’t need to lie to people. Just let them try out bitcoin cash and bitcoin core. I don’t think lying to people is a good way to bring them over to our side. Bitcoin Cash proves itself when they use it.

  4. What about the last github comment of Breez:

    >We allow you to export the lnd files using ‘Export DB Files’ in the Developers menu. These files and a bit of lnd know-how allows you to restore w/o Breez. Moreover, additional cloud options are in our roadmap.

    Does that mean you can export your keys, or am I reading this incorrectly?

  5. 1. Phoenix wallet website homepage “non-custodial.”
    2. Breez wallet allows automatic backups to google drive or any webdav server, or manual backups of the channel database.
    3. Breez wallet has full onchain wallet and lnd command line interface, what are you smoking?
    4. In Breez wallet, you have the channel keys, and they are your coins.
    5. You literally linked a “CLOSED” issue, 🤦‍♂️

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